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3D LUTs for the home enthusiast

 
 
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Author buzzard767
User - Mono 
#16 | Posted: 3 Oct 2012 16:32 
Would it be possible to include the Light Illusion Calibration Images inside LightSpace?

Author ConnecTED
User - Mono 
#17 | Posted: 3 Oct 2012 16:35 | Edited by: ConnecTED 
Hi Steve,

Do you recommend using Quick Profile for Plasma to measure only primary colors or you suggesting to measure secondary C-M-Y also?

Author Steve

Mod - Scene 
#18 | Posted: 3 Oct 2012 16:48 
We have stayed away from including the calibration images within LightSpace so we can keep them updated separately from the program. But, we could include them... Is it a real problem, of just something that would be 'nice'?

Quick Profile can indeed include Secondary Colours, if you select that option within the 'Profile' menu. But, it is not required for calibration for the reasons given in the Idiot's User Guide page. It can help to understand the underlying display capabilities, but they are not required for calibration.

To use secondary colours means using the full Cube based Display Characterisation profiling technique.

Cheers,

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

Mod - Scene 
#19 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 12:53 
Guys, just a thought - what about making a DVD of the calibration patches?

It would be easy to make the exported .tif files into a movie clip in Windows Movie Maker, or similar, setting each frame to repeat for the necessary duration (say 10 seconds) and then burn a DVD, and use LightSpace in DIP mode.

I've never tried this, but I can't see any problems with the workflow.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author JJ Johnson
User - Mono 
#20 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 13:01 
Hi Steve,

Is there any link between LUT Image point patterns and specific display anomalies? I’m trying to figure out what the different point patterns inside a display profile LUT Image can tell me about the display’s strengths and weaknesses. If so, do you have a cheat sheet of point patterns to watch out for, where inside the LUT cube they usually pop up and what display anomaly its indicative of?

Another question, how do you know if an 11pt, 12pt … 17pt is adequate enough if you cannot use a Quick Profile because of poor color separation? Time is the main issue here.

Kind Regards,

JJ

Author Steve

Mod - Scene 
#21 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 13:21 | Edited by: Steve 
Hi JJ, the point pattern in a LUT is the 'inverse' of the display properties.

So, if a point has move further into the cube (move further 'inside' the cube)it is showing the measured point on the display had too much 'colour' (gamut/saturation), and the LUT is reducing it.

If a point has moved towards the outside of the cube is is showing the measured point had too little colour... Points squashed at the edge of the cube show where the display is under gamut overall (same as the points in the CIE diagram being 'within' the target gamut).

I'll work on a crib-sheet page for the website!

But, a way to see what different point movement means is to make a 'New' LUT (File/New) and then use the 'LUT Manipulation' tools to see what effect changing Saturation, etc, has on the cube.

For full Display Characterisation there really isn't a way to know what size cube profile is needed - a rule of thumb is the worse the display the larger the point size required...

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author buzzard767
User - Mono 
#22 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 15:25 
Steve:
We have stayed away from including the calibration images within LightSpace so we can keep them updated separately from the program. But, we could include them... Is it a real problem, of just something that would be 'nice'?

Put it in the "would be nice" category. I keep the Light Illusion images + AVSHD + Qtec Hi-Definition Reference Disc (I'm secretly in love with Color Girl #2) + a plethora of 1080p reference pictures among other things on a Media Box so I'll be plugging and unplugging the HDMI cable eventually anyway....

Buzz

Author buzzard767
User - Mono 
#23 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 15:29 
Steve:
It would be easy to make the exported .tif files into a movie clip in Windows Movie Maker, or similar, setting each frame to repeat for the necessary duration (say 10 seconds) and then burn a DVD, and use LightSpace in DIP mode.

A 17x17x17 Cube at 10 seconds a flat comes out to almost 14 hours. The pub would be closed by the time it was finished, so no, not for me.

Author Steve

Mod - Scene 
#24 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 15:30 
LOL

I was thinking of Quick Profiling
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

Mod - Scene 
#25 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 15:33 
Not yet available, but we are working on SpaceMatch DCM:

This will deal with PC ICC based issues when using HDMI for patch generation.

See: www.lightillusion.com/spacematch.html for advanced info.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author TonyMan
User - Mono 
#26 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 15:38 
Perhaps this is off topic but I have run into an issue with "home" setups. The problem is they happen to be producer's homes who are paying for my work We often provide bluray screeners for reviewing finished projects. On a couple of occasions, blurays (and DVDs) that looked fine in almost all environments looked washed out, with poor black level on a producers projector. It's as if the 0-255 conversion to 16-235 were applied twice, resulting in 32 for black. Does this make sense? Is there an obvious solution. Again the disc will look great on a computer, great on a plasma or LCD but very poor on a projector. Often the "producer" will put in a professionally duplicated bluray to show there is something wrong with our disc. Any thoughts on this. Thanks.

Tony

Author Steve

Mod - Scene 
#27 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 15:44 
Hi Tony - that probably depends on the workflow you have used to make the blu-ray...

QT is a real pain for getting levels wrong for example...

It may be worth getting a HDMI box that can re-map the data path (PC/Video levels) to check.
A Lumagen for example?

You could also make a level change LUT and run in any other LUT box in the chain to check the same?
LightSpace can easily make such a LUT.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author TonyMan
User - Mono 
#28 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 18:04 
Thanks Steve. Playing back our bluray on our own systems looks fine. The discs are remarkably similar to what we see in grading. Our blu-rays have been shown in movie theatres for film festivals etc. No issues. The issue is playing back on some systems-usually home theatre projectors. Is there a difference in how consumer playback system will treat a burned disc vs a replicated disc...again...this is probably off topic.

Author Steve

Mod - Scene 
#29 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 18:08 
No problem with the question - not really off-topic.

The problem will probably be EDID within the HDMI chain not being acted on correctly.
Again, a box such as the Radiance will allow you to prove that by overriding the EDID data.

Hope this helps.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author TonyMan
User - Mono 
#30 | Posted: 4 Oct 2012 19:11 
Thanks as always Steve.

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