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HDR vs SDR pattern

 
Author ouzycn
ZRO
#1 | Posted: 18 Mar 2019 09:57 
Besides HDR metadata can be inject by HDfury integral 2 or previous gen 4K60 device.
What's the difference between that two?
If I use PGenerator to gens 1080P60 8b Full RGB pattern with HDR/DV metadata injection, in theoretically, accurately same as Six-G HDR pattern generator?

Author ConnecTED
DPS
#2 | Posted: 18 Mar 2019 10:11 
Hi, for HDR10 metadata and AVI infoframe injection via any HD Fury device, there zero difference at that specific feature area between any HD Fury device, you can use HD Fury GUI for this.

HDR10 will require bit-perfect RGB-Video generator and PGenerator is bit-perfect, its been measured there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/3023002-cheap-test-pattern-gen erators-accuracy-thread.html

As for comparison with Murideo Six-G, you get exact the same accuracy of HDR10 RGB-Video 8-bit patch generator compared with PGenerator.

DV patch generation is different and its not using metadata injection, its not supported by PGenerator.

Author ouzycn
ZRO
#3 | Posted: 18 Mar 2019 16:26 
ConnecTED
Thanks Ted for quick reply.
Yes, I do read the link before post question here and I found PGenerator is a good TPG for free.
Due to RPi 3 b+ only has HDMI 1.4 and up to 1080p60 8 bit RGB Full. considering HDR10 could up to 10bit,
should I worry about those 8–>10bit as color deep diff?
Is it necessary to use integral convert 1080p60 8bit it to 4K60 10bit, Rec.709 -> BT.2020? Or just inject HDR10 metadata and keep use 1080p60p 8bit would be fine? If so, would you recommend a AVI inforframe code for me?

For DV, I copied from avsfroum as below. Question is ''CalMAN (for internal generator)", i guess it refer to a open a "pattern window" in source settings, am I right? and does this feature only include in Calman Home Enthusiast version?

[For Dolby Vision, you need to generate patterns where they have some special pixels somewhere which DV capable TV understands as DV metadata (HD Fury is not sending HDR10 metadata, its sending vendor infoframe for LG (Dolby Vision VSIF), to forge the TV to enter its DV mode.). You need to have Dolby License for that stuff, Dolby is not providing the method without agreement and probably without annual fees to pay. CalMAN (for internal generator), and Murideo (Six-G/VideoForge PRO) has that license from Dolby for CalMAN Enthusiast users.]

Author ouzycn
ZRO
#4 | Posted: 19 Mar 2019 17:02 | Edited by: ouzycn 
For the fis part of HDR questions, I might have some answer from your post in here (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/3023002-cheap-test-pattern-ge nerators-accuracy-thread.html#post57070220)

There is nothing super special about HDR10 patterns, if you have a bit-perfect 1080p 8bit @ RGB-Video generator, adding an HD Fury device (Integral/Linker/Vertex) which will add the HDR10 Metadata and the AVI Infoframe, you can have exact same results as having a Murideo Six-G/VideoForgePRO for HDR10, where its generating accurately 8-bit RGB-Video with metadata + infoframe also. Just you are limited to output 1080p60 (or 24p if its supported) while with Murideo Six-G/VideoForgePRO you can send 2160p24/60 etc. At this point resolution has zero effect to patch generation, if you send 1080p 10% Window or 2160p 10% Window you will measure the exact same results. (resolutions is not affecting accuracy of patch generation when the colorspace/HDR10 metadata/AVI infoframe the all the same).
The problem is that ideally you need to generate YCbCr REC.2020 patterns when you perform HDR10 calibration (and YCbCr REC.709 when you perform SDR calibration) because this is the colorspace where your player will output (bit-perfect) when you will playback your movies.


So question is PG+Integral 2 with metadata + infoframe, can I use it for HDR10 calibration?

Thx!!

Author ConnecTED
DPS
#5 | Posted: 19 Mar 2019 18:42 
ouzycn:
Due to RPi 3 b+ only has HDMI 1.4 and up to 1080p60 8 bit RGB Full. considering HDR10 could up to 10bit,
should I worry about those 8–>10bit as color deep diff?
Is it necessary to use integral convert 1080p60 8bit it to 4K60 10bit, Rec.709 -> BT.2020? Or just inject HDR10 metadata and keep use 1080p60p 8bit would be fine? If so, would you recommend a AVI inforframe code for me?

All calibration software use 8-bit values targets.

Just use HD Fury to add metadata/infoframe, nothing else can work.

REC.709 -> REC.2020 matrix will not work, use RGB-Video output with 1080p24 and you will be fine.

You can use any HD Fury with PGenerator (or with any other accurate RGB hardware generator) to generate HDR10 patterns.

Author priitv8
ZRO
#6 | Posted: 22 Jun 2019 17:01 | Edited by: priitv8 
First things first: thank you for the great piece of software!
ConnecTED:
Just use HD Fury to add metadata/infoframe, nothing else can work.
REC.709 -> REC.2020 matrix will not work, use RGB-Video output with 1080p24 and you will be fine.
You can use any HD Fury with PGenerator (or with any other accurate RGB hardware generator) to generate HDR10 patterns.

Please help me to understand the method(s) of HDR10 pattern generation options with PGenerator.
Do I understand it correctly, that in itself and using only the RPi onboard HDMI hardware, it will not generate the HDMI metadata or infoframes, that is why my TV does not switch to HDR mode automatically?
To overcome this, I should get something like HD Fury, that would allow me to inject HDR-specific info into HDMI stream outside the RPi board?
Does the PGenerator use proper ST.2084/PQ luminance levels when in HDR mode?
What is the semantics of those HDR-specific fields in CalMan and what effect will they have on PGenerator?
[imgs=https://photos.app.goo.gl/1BKzssTFPW3jxyUDA]CalMan Home 2019[/imgs]

Author RollsRoyce
ZRO
#7 | Posted: 24 Jun 2019 19:02 | Edited by: RollsRoyce 
ouzycn:
Is it necessary to use integral convert 1080p60 8bit it to 4K60 10bit, Rec.709 -> BT.2020? Or just inject HDR10 metadata and keep use 1080p60p 8bit would be fine?

The Integral cannot upscale resolution (the Linker and some other HDFury products can) nor can it modify colorspace. It just injects the necessary metadata into the 8-bit RGB signal from the generator.

Author Steve

INF
Male
#8 | Posted: 6 Jul 2019 12:07 | Edited by: Steve 
priitv8
Sorry, I missed your post and it has been held for moderation far longer than it should have.
Ted will now be able to reply.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author ConnecTED
DPS
#9 | Posted: 6 Jul 2019 13:16 
priitv8:
Please help me to understand the method(s) of HDR10 pattern generation options with PGenerator.
Do I understand it correctly, that in itself and using only the RPi onboard HDMI hardware, it will not generate the HDMI metadata or infoframes, that is why my TV does not switch to HDR mode automatically?
To overcome this, I should get something like HD Fury, that would allow me to inject HDR-specific info into HDMI stream outside the RPi board?
Does the PGenerator use proper ST.2084/PQ luminance levels when in HDR mode?
What is the semantics of those HDR-specific fields in CalMan and what effect will they have on PGenerator?
[imgs=https://photos.app.goo.gl/1BKzssTFPW3jxyUDA]CalMan Home 2019[/imgs]

Hi,

Rpi as hardware can't generate any metadata, since its HDMI 1.4 device, the settings you see at CalMAN as just cosmetics and they are not working.

You need HDMI 2.0a and API to support metadata injection for a calibration software to able to send metadata from inside the calibration software.

You can use PGenerator with 1080p24 or 1080p60 and just use any HD Fury device to just add the metadata and AVI infoframe.

Set PGenerator from its options to output RGB-Full, set from LightSpace options patch scale 16-235 and from HD Fury GUI add:

Custom Metadata (for 0.005 Black / 1000 nits Peak): 87:01:1a:74:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:e8:03:32:00:e8:03:90:01

or

Custom Metadata (for 0.005 Black / 4000 nits Peak): 87:01:1a:b0:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01

with

Custom AVI (1080p60): 00:e8:64:10:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00

or

Custom AVI (1080p24): 00:e8:64:20:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00

Tick also to always send REC.2020 flag from Fury GUI.

Author ConnecTED
DPS
#10 | Posted: 6 Jul 2019 13:29 
In the future... if the Kernel of new Raspberry 4 model which is HDMI 2.0a allow metadata injection, it may added support, but this will require the new model to have bit-perfect RGB output like Raspberry Pi 3.

Author priitv8
ZRO
#11 | Posted: 7 Jul 2019 19:23 
@ConnecTED
Thank you for the clear instructions!
I have the Vertex and will try the AVI and HDR injection with the values provided.
One thing is still unclear to me - when in HDR mode, will the calibration tester request patterns with absolute values (ie code 519 for 100nits) or still with relative (like 50% of max) values?
Maybe one day the Pi 4 can become a full fledger HDR PG.

Author ConnecTED
DPS
#12 | Posted: 7 Jul 2019 19:28 
Hi,

All calibration software send 8-bit values for patch generation to any external generator.

RGB-Triplets for HDR10 are absolute, 235 (8-bit) = 10000 nits.

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 HDR vs SDR pattern

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