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User Comments - LightSpace/ColourSpace vs. Calman

 
 
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Author Steve

INF
Male
#31 | Posted: 24 May 2020 09:46 
From a post on AVSforum:

Ok, after tremendous help and assistance from @ConnecTEDDD I have finally managed to complete the LightSpace calibration of my LG C9 with a cheap meter (i1d3 Retail) and a cheap pattern generator (Raspberry PI).

First of all, I would like to point out I am a newbie who just wanted to get the best out of my tv. So no in depth knowledge nor experience here. I have to admit it took some time and reading to get to the point of basic understanding how the LightSpace software works. My initial impression was that the calibration process with LightSpace would include much more knowledge of the color science and much more manual inputs than the so called auto calibration in Calman, but it turned out to be pretty simple in the end. The software is so powerful and in my case it didn't require a single manual calibration step, as the guidance I received from Ted was just spot on!

The reason I turned to LightSpace and decided to buy the license is my dissatisfaction with Calman autocal. I ran at least 30 separate autocal procedures with different picture presets, and was never really happy with the end result. Each time I used Calman's Lightning LUT as per the official recommendation, however I got better visual results when I first tried the Fixed Grid option. However, after my initial joy (and almost reference level post calibration charts - see my post above), it turned out the LUT had the yellow shark fin, as many other users have reported. The post cal picture had some banding too (can bee checked with Ted's disk files). The yellow spike anomaly could only be seen within the LightSpace cube preview, as the Calman color checker is pretty rudimentary and does not give you the full picture.

To cut the long story short, I needed to make some preparation steps in order to let LightSpace do its magic. @ConnecTEDDD was blazing fast and tireless in guiding me through the learning curve. First I bought a Raspberry PI 3 B+ (around 70 euro) which is the recommended low cost pattern generator. I flashed the SD card in order to turn the Raspberry PI into the so called PGenerator. Then I used the brilliant DeviceControl to set the output of the PGenerator to 1080/24 and RGB full. And that's about everything one needs to do in order to have a great pattern generator with flawless integration with LightSpace (also Calman).

As I don't have the LG service remote at this point in time (ordered one online, still waiting for delivery), Ted advised me to skip the service menu part for now and start with the most accurate 'out of the box' color preset/colorspace, which was ISF Dark/Warm 2 in my case. First I did a factory reset of the TV to get rid of the stored Calman LUT's in all the picture modes. Then I disabled all picture processing enhancements and was ready to proceed.

Within DeviceControl (which connects directly to the TV, the same way Calman connects to the TV) I ticked "enable calibration", selected ISF Dark and reset the 3D Lut. Then I selected gamma 2.2 (has nothing to do with the actual target gamma), and set Contrast at 85 and Brightness at 50. Then I unticked enable calibration and was ready for profiling within LightSpace.

For connection between the PGenerator and my MacBook Pro 16'' (running Windows in bootcamp) I used a LAN cable (direct ethernet connection). The PGenerator was connected to the tv's HDMI input 1.

The display characterization process took around 3 hours (fully automatic with no inputs from the user, except from setting the appropriate options for the pattern generator and the meter prior to the measurements).

When the profiling was done, I opened the "Convert Color Space" window in LightSpace, selected the target colorspace - REC.709 and then selected my profile measurements in order to get the correction file from LS. It literally takes a few seconds to get the correction file which needs to be exported afterwards and uploaded to the TV via DeviceControl.

The end result is brilliant in terms of real content, no banding or artifacts whatsoever, natural skin tones, very smooth color gradation, etc. Absolutely beautiful, and I haven't even done the full recommended procedure with the service menu white balance adjustments. Can't wait for the service remote to redo the calibration.

Many thanks to Ted again, and I highly recommend LightSpace to every home enthusiast.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#32 | Posted: 26 May 2020 20:41 
From the same user as above, and from a follow-up post after having used ColourSpace for the first time, for a manual Dolby Vision HDR calibration:

This was my first time to use the ColourSpace software, and I must admit the manual calibration was a breeze. The moving cursor is just so much more intuitive than the manual calibration workflows in Calman.

Anyways, my post cal curves look very good and I think I did it right in my first attempt. I copied the B,W,R,G,B values to the user configuration file and uploaded it via USB stick to my tv while playing some Netflix DV content. Just brilliant.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#33 | Posted: 29 May 2020 10:08 | Edited by: Steve 
From a Calman user looking to swap to ColourSpace:

I am interested in Colourspace HTL as the manual calibration is getting better and better with it. I have CalMan Enthusiast now but I dont like what spectracal is doing - so I am interested if any trade is possible for my CalMan License... I read a lot about Colourspace and I am in contact with some "prominent" users of it (for example Ted at www.displaycalibrations.com...) My C7 is broken and I will probably buy an C9, that's where the fun begins with its LUT capability. CalMan LUTs are sh** (sorry for my language) so I am interested in ColourSpace. I hope there can be a good deal, thank you very much!
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#34 | Posted: 30 May 2020 18:57 
From a user that purchased Calman for LG just a short while ago, and purchased LightSpace/ColourSpace today:

I have convinced myself that I will save myself a whole load of time, and frustration, abandoning Calman and going with ColourSpace. The perpetual license really helps, as do Leon and of course Ted.

Looking forward to digging into the process, and hope I can be of some help as a relative newbie trying to get straight into ColourSpace without first knowing LightSpace.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#35 | Posted: 5 Jun 2020 13:56 
From a Calman user looking to upgrade to ColourSpace:

Quote request for ColorSpace HTL, to be able to calibrate my oled LG C9.
I have Calman but I don't get good results and I have bands on the images that cannot be corrected.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#36 | Posted: 5 Jun 2020 15:28 
Taken from a Twitter post, in response to the announcement of DeviceControl allowing ColourSpace/LightSpace to calibrate LG 2020 BX/CX/GX/WX/ZX, 2019 B9/C9/E9/W9/Z9/R9, B8/C8/E8/G8/W8, and 2018 B7/C7/E7/G7/W7 with Technicolor 'Studio' Firmware. TVs:

I had this done on my C8, in conjunction with Lightspace, I asked the calibrator I use to try it, worked brilliantly and he really liked it.

Created LUT's basically and uploaded them to replace the C8's, the awesome thing for the C8 was that it completely replaced that awful forced wide colour gamut for game mode, using this enabled him to use Lightspace, and not Calman of which he hates with a passion.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#37 | Posted: 8 Jun 2020 10:07 
From a new LightSpace/ColourSpace user, who previously used Calman for LG, which is a 1 year purchase license:

I am a believer. I purchased LightSpace a week ago. Got some great coaching from Ted. And now I have the best picture quality my C8 has ever produced.

My meters are an i1 Display Pro Plus and an i1 Pro 2. I used LightSpace to profile the i1 Display Pro Plus with the i1 Pro 2.

I then did a few test quick profiles that I sent to Ted for his review. With each exchange my quick profiles improved. Finally I was able to use settings that Ted provided and his patch lists to create my native display profile. That profile was very good. So I went and profiled again with service menu Cool adjusted to 192,192,192. My intent was to experiment with alternate white points. LightSpace makes setting new gamma and or alternate white points a very quick and easy job. The long profile run does not have to be done again if the target nits do not change. I altered the Rec.709 colorspace to reflect my preference for the D-Nice white point and gamma 2.3. I then created the Device Control LUT file and uploaded it to the Cinema slot. Finally I ran a verification with Ted's patch list. The verification looked excellent and so did the picture quality.

I have used Calman Home for LG up until now. But was not entirely pleased with my results. Calman's methods caused all sorts of drift during the calibration of my panel. You really shouldn't put up a patch with high luminescence for seconds while you try to guess the correct RGB balance. My time was up on my license, so I weighed renewal of Calman Home for another year vs the jump to LightSpace. The permanent LightSpace license as well as the license for ColorSpace swayed me in the LightSpace direction. I am glad I came.

Time to experiment with the ColorSpace beta.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#38 | Posted: 17 Jun 2020 08:42 | Edited by: Steve 
From an new Calman 2020 for LG user who has just traded-up to ColourSpace:

I like to inquire about possibly getting a trade-up for a user coming from recently purchased Calman for LG 2020. I am interested in a Colourspace HTL license, as I am a home user looking to calibrate a WOLED LG CX. I own an i1Pro 2 and i1Display Retail (already acquired the DLL patch from Ted and tested it). I've tested Lightspace ZRO with the PiGenerator and am happy with manual calibration results but would like get a licensed version to generate LUTs for the TV for SDR, and use LG's iTPG for HDR measurements. After many long nights of testing and research I've decided I am not happy with the results of Calman's LUTs nor it's AutoCal performance, though I was able to use Calman for manual calibration okay. After reading your many guides, Ted's website, AVSFourm, and watching the Murideo webinars with Steve, I'm convinced it's about time I come to the dark side.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#39 | Posted: 27 Jun 2020 09:12 
From a Calman user who has upgraded to ColourSpace:

I would rather upgrade to ColourSpace than to ever again put money into that yearly scheme that Calman has been at for years now. They even want you to pay for the years where you did not get their upgrade which I find quite hilarious especially when the bugs that annoyed me are still not fixed :D
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#40 | Posted: 1 Jul 2020 18:30 | Edited by: Steve 
While not a review of ColourSpace vs. Calman, this message from a new ColourSpace Beta Program user does need seeing

Let's talk about magic now

Not my first BBQ in terms of Beta even Alpha testing, and...
Well, I've seen many bugs, on cameras (even the Arri D-20 and D-21) was the first to shoot a feature with the prototype...
And also with Iridas I was user no.3 on SpeedGrade and still working with Adobe on a few projects.
And more recently as a beta tester for the Panasonic S1H.
You see, I'm a camera person...
That has been said, the ColourSpace is not an upgrade, it's a completely new interface recoding with the ability to multi-task the calibration process.
The only thing that I notice is that the patches are not on 'automatic' so you have to search for the problem, but when it is done, I found nothing... nothing wrong. I'm using it very simply, but I was expecting bugs, where are they?

Thank you for this extraordinary coding!!!

One word: WOW

And again: WOW

There is still hope with people like you!


Obviously this is not about me, but the team that I work with within Light Illusion. They are the key in getting ColourSpace (and LightSpace before it) to be so stable, even when in Beta development...
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#41 | Posted: 18 Jul 2020 22:23 
A nice comment from a user with experience of different calibration systems:

I'm consistently getting very nice results using CS. This calibration was at 179nits for a well lit room and even at this high luminance, the results are really good. I used a 5402 customized patch set for my 55CX OLED. When doing A/B comparisons of CS calibrations with other software based calibrations, you can really see the improvement in the lower APL parts of a scene or lower APL content in general.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#42 | Posted: 27 Jul 2020 16:34 
From a customer who has just purchased ColourSpace HTL, after trying Calman for LG:

I am interested in trade-up from Calman Home for LG 2020 to ColourSpace HTL version. I was really excited coming to an LG CX OLED TV with a built-in LUT (a big jump from my old trustworthy Sony LCD, which only allowed 2-point WB) and was convinced Calman was the only way to go in order to take a full advantage of the built-in LUT (FYI, I used ChromaPure before in my Sony calibration days, but ultimately was more comfortable with the free HCFR than it). Little did I know that ColourSpace can access LG internal LUT via DeviceControl utility. As I already had a licence, I decided to give Calman a fair chance and though it does what it is asked for, I was never able to obtain results others on AVS Forum could pull off (I know pretty graphs do not tell the whole story, but still they are enough to highlight there is only so much I can do with Calman). I also became somewhat frustrated with the level of control (or rather lack of thereof) available in the LG version.

While we do not actually offer Trade-ups for 'Calman for TV' licenses, as they are really a 'yearly rental license', we do always try our best to support users that are having calibration issues, and we were able to offer a suitable deal that was accepted by the customer.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#43 | Posted: 28 Jul 2020 11:53 | Edited by: Steve 
From the Flanders Scientific (FSI) website information on display calibration of their professional XM series displays:

Calibration Quick Guides - XM Series
Quick start calibration guides for XM Series monitors.

CalMAN*
*Note: CalMAN can only be used for SDR calibration.


Both LightSpace and ColourSpace can be used for HDR calibration of any FSI XM Series display.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#44 | Posted: 29 Jul 2020 22:26 
From a new ColourSpace user, who has just traded-up from Calman:

Just a quick note from a very fresh user of ColourSpace.

After a sweet honeymoon with Calman Home for LG (and several calibrations and factory resets later) I finally came to conclusion I need to up my game to get and, most importantly, see a positive difference in the calibration I make (the graphs might have been looking better and the was temperature spot on too, which is always welcomed as I hate cool colors, but there were obvious problems with the content elsewhere).

For starters, I was plagued by numerous issues ranging from black clipping (fine after factory reset, but not once 1D greyscale calibration was done as it would then clip around 19/20 without raising the brightness to 53-55, which obviously invalidates the calibration somewhat and before anyone asks, I tried to raise the values to hit the Y targets manually through DDC after the autocal sweep) to banding and/or bad posterization in dark areas in both HDR and DV. I will leave out all the instances where the calibration would simply go south (e.g. 'polluting' low end of the spectrum with totally wrong colors or at the very least some unwelcome color casts) as these usually resolved themselves on another try (or factory reset, go figure).

In any case, I have bought ColourSpace, took a quick verification profile (1k points) of my last Calman 1D+3D LUT (the profile that took around 5 hours to create and actually wasn't half bad in real world viewing) and then did a factory reset (to get rid of the custom 1D LUTs once and for all), adjusted WB of the white patch in the service menu and ran 5k profiling with the CSV that Ted sends in his email when you ask for access to LG Templates.

So far my LG 65CX OLED looks great, no obvious issues from my first look at the content that would bring up the problems with my previous calibrations, so fingers crossed.

One side note, greyscale plot looks nicer on Calman, but I guess running 21^3 profiling (as from what I read so far augmenting the profile with 1D 33p sweep is not really advisable on OLEDs) could take care of that too.

I was also impressed with the speed of the whole process as my 5k profiling with my i1D3 (probe matched to my i1 spectro using FCVM, which worked great from what I can tell) took 2h 45m, which is almost half the time Calman took (I think at around 3.5k points plus 1D LUT for greyscale), so I am confident I could run 21^3 LUT profiling in that time. I also like how snappy the software feels (especially compared to LightSpace, which I installed to see if I can get some reporting/summary, but I guess everyone exports the data anyway, so I might try to hunt for that nice Excel sheet that some others used in the thread). And it has not crashed yet on me (which happened with Calman numerous times).

I know there is still more in store, I have just begun this journey and very happy so far. For anyone on the fence, I couldn't recommend 3D LUT profiling with ColourSpace any more. Manual HDR/DV calibration next on my list, but I am optimistic about the process now.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Steve

INF
Male
#45 | Posted: 28 Aug 2020 22:08 
From a new ColourSpace user, upgrading from Calman:

I have to say: As an IT Engineer, this is far more comfortable and intuitive, after a short learning phase and a few ??? around my head, than this forced linear-workflow crap from Portrait.

Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

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