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Plasma Calibration

 
 
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Author Gabriele Turchi
ZRO
#16 | Posted: 2 Oct 2012 21:38 
thanks steve ,

but if you are saying that (because is a plasma) the result we can get trough a lut would be more accurate than calibrating manually (with the help of lightspace ) , i would like that idea ,

for example at the moment i am not using the HDLink for the reasons we know , and i would have to buy the davio , but if i can avoid the LUT would be quite a money saver .

I remember you mentioning in the past the some of the most accurate results you got on plasmas has been without LUT (because of of the ABL) ,

so i am wondering How we can manually calibrate a plasma using LS and without using a LUT ...

i guess would be about loading RGBYMC patches and manually change the RGB High/LOW settings ?

do you a guide for that ?

thanks a lot

g

Author Steve

INF
Male
#17 | Posted: 3 Oct 2012 06:57 
All plasmas have different controls, so we don't have a full guide for each, but if you use the 'Live Measure' mode you can check the display while adjusting the manual controls.

As the last client I calibrated plasmas for had HDlink Pro boxes we used this method as they no longer trusted the HDlink boxes.

The results were very good.

Always check with a Quick profile for a full understanding of the calibration.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Gabriele Turchi
ZRO
#18 | Posted: 3 Oct 2012 13:21 
thanks steve .
yep i believe that buy the Davio to load a plasma Lut would be maybe a non necessary expanse (again considering that because of the ABL display characterization cannot be accurate )

COuld please kind recap what needed to be checked when manually calibrate using live view ?

i believe :

- set the color space intended to be matched (rec 709)
- start to measure
- Check Brightness Value : that should be managed by using the control (and not the brightness control (right?)
- Check white point : that should be managed by setting the Temp control and RGB Gain control ?
- Load and check R-G-B-C-Y-M patches : that should be managed by tweaking : saturation control and the RGB low/high (equivalent of gain/bias) in the advance panel of my panasonic 58ft12th gen pro
- Gamma : i believe require a quick cal to check that one ? and can be adjusted by using the gamma setting and the brightness setting on my PF12th seems to affect gamma

What else ?

thanks
g

Author Steve

INF
Male
#19 | Posted: 3 Oct 2012 13:57 
Hi Gabriele, as I say all displays controls are different...

But, use the minimum possible

The basic outline of what you say should work though.
See the Idiot's User Guide for additional help.
The first section deals with manual setup.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author C Workflowers
ZRO
#20 | Posted: 10 Oct 2012 06:53 
Small patch usually works well and calib will be OK as always until you get that project with all bright colours and the whole thing starts to pump like crazy.
Got to check a Panasonic TH50BT300 the other day and colours were spot on, their internal calibration tool is really good. You still have that banding on gradiations you don't have on the LCD broadcast, looks like dithering.

Cedric

Author Gabriele Turchi
ZRO
#21 | Posted: 10 Oct 2012 10:58 
hi cedric ,
meaning that using the internal tools you were able to calibrate properly without using a Lut ?
(wich for plasmas seems that might be the best solution ...)

thanks

g

Author Steve

INF
Male
#22 | Posted: 10 Oct 2012 11:05 
Calibrating using internal controls as best you can, or via an external LUT amounts to the same thing. The problems are still there.

Getting the gamut right is not the problem (which is what Cedric is referring to) - the problem is varying brightness levels due to ABL, which makes grading impossible.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Gabriele Turchi
ZRO
#23 | Posted: 10 Oct 2012 11:09 
yep , i did not mean that without the LUT the ABL issue would not be there ...

but considering the existence of the ABL which makes reading patches not as accurate as for an LCD ...(and in my case considering the issue related to teh HDLink ) i have the feeling that for plasma a manual calibration (checked on LS ) is kind of better ..

g

Author Steve

INF
Male
#24 | Posted: 10 Oct 2012 11:14 
No, not better - just potentially different - both will be equally wrong... differently.

There is just no way around that.

Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Gabriele Turchi
ZRO
#25 | Posted: 10 Oct 2012 11:20 
for better i meant that at least does not require and extra element (LUT ) or box to load the LUT , considering that with plasma we cannot be nowhere close to 100% accurate anyway ...

g

Author Blair S Paulsen
ZRO
#26 | Posted: 9 Nov 2012 18:51 
I went with the Panny Plasma as its very accepted in LA due to the number of post facilities using them. I also like the greater viewing cone (better off axis than even IPS LCD) and I was able to get a 42" for $1,000 USD (yes, I had to get a $500 AJA HDP2 SDI>DVI/HDMI mini-converter, but the Panny SDI board cost more than the monitor!). I grasp the ABL issue (not to mention the power draw of Plasmas) and would like to move away from Plasma tech. I would love to go with the Sony OLED monitors but the image (especially the blacks) is so good, I'm wary of creating looks only the clients and I will ever see.

In any case, bang for the buck does count for most of us. When I followed your link to the Penta HD2 offerings I was unable to get even a rough idea of cost, you have to request a quote. Could you perhaps give me a sense of cost before I pursue it further. Thanks Steve. Also thanks for doing this forum and for the beer you bought me last April at the CML/NAB party.

Cheers - Blair

Author Gabriele Turchi
ZRO
#27 | Posted: 11 Nov 2012 15:54 
penta price range is between :

9000 usd for the 24" -->up to --> 13500 usd for the 55 inches

Author mike_n
ZRO
#28 | Posted: 25 Nov 2012 13:52 
Steve:
We have tested many similar displays, such as TVlogic, Eizo, etc, and the Penta's do come out on top.

Steve,

got a few follow up questions regarding this statement.

I'm looking into LS CMS, currently use an Eizo CG275W calibrated via ColorNavigator (Eizo's own calibration software)...

1) Can you elaborate what your results were when calibrating the Eizo LCD's ? What made the Penta's come out on top ?

2) How would you calibrate an Eizo screen ? Using the display controls only or would a dedicated hardware LUT box (eeColor, Radiance) further improve results ?

Thanks.

- M

Author Steve

INF
Male
#29 | Posted: 25 Nov 2012 19:15 
Hi Mike,

We have found with many displays with 'self calibration' that the results are a lot below ideal.

We initially found that with Penta, and now FSI, and they both looked to adopt our calibration to improve their results.
Penta have that fully integrated now - FSI are just starting the required developed.
We are working with other display manufacturers to improve their calibration too,

With Eizo we have always viewed they display as good GUI displays, but not colour grading capable.
All profiling tests have shown the standard Eizo calibration to be non-optimal.

To calibrate an Eizo accurately you would need to turn off all internal calibration and use an external LUT box - eeColour for HDMI input for example, and profile anc calibrate with LightSpace CMS.

Hope this helps.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author mike_n
ZRO
#30 | Posted: 27 Nov 2012 11:26 
Steve:
To calibrate an Eizo accurately you would need to turn off all internal calibration and use an external LUT box - eeColour for HDMI input for example, and profile anc calibrate with LightSpace CMS.

In your opinion, with a LUT box (e.g. eeColor), would the Eizo (all self-calibration turned off) be a reference screen, capable for grading ?

are the Penta and FSI hardware calibrateable screens and LS writes to their internal hardware LUT's or how are they calibrated using LS ?

Thanks.

- M

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