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Lumagen mini 3d and eecolor and hdcp

 
Author mvb
ZRO
#1 | Posted: 2 May 2013 10:57 
Hello,

it seems i have a hdcp problem with these two devices.
if i place the lumagen before the eecolor in the chain it doesn't seem to make a hdcp handshake with the eecolor. The lumagen turns the hdcp on the output simply off. So i get no picture with blu-ray and everything else that uses hdcp. removing the eecolor results in a fine working system.
With the eecolor in the chain, powering the lumagen off and on somtetimes results in a clear picture, until the bd-menu changes ... very strange.

Does anybody know what could be the issue here?

Author Steve

INF
Male
#2 | Posted: 4 May 2013 08:20 
A thought - have you tried changing Lumagen "Input / HDMI / EDID: Passback/Default" setting?

Passback may help?

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Harry
ZRO
#3 | Posted: 4 May 2013 10:32 
Another tip:
Referring to "the Radiance is optimized for cables >6' " on AVSforum:

Seems that sometimes a short HDMI cable length can be the reason of some effects.
Did you or can you test using cables with a length of ~1,5m between each of your devices?

Author JJ Johnson
ZRO
#4 | Posted: 4 May 2013 15:06 
mvb
Hi mvb,

Please describe your video chain and source material (Blu Ray/DVD/2D/3D) you are using.

From my experience with eeColor (w.o. Lumagen in the video path), it's the Blu Ray player that's incharge of a proper VESA/CEC/HotPlugConnect/HDCP automated connection among devices connected from the Blu Ray Player through
the display ... assuming those are the end devices of the video path you are refering to. The short suggestion is do a hot plug
disconnect and reconnect (i.e. disconnect the Blu Ray cable, then reconnect) to wake up the Blu Ray player so it will poll
all devices in the video path to what their capabilities are ... because you changed settings without VESA automation
letting the other devices know. Sometimes the Blu Ray player seems "asleep" and does not
notice the change in Hot Plug connection, then you'll have to Power Reset the Blu Ray player. If you do this enough times,
the problem will seem to magically go away.

The long answer is VESA/CEC/HotPlugConnect/HDCP is a very complicated operation because there are so many memory
locations inside each VESA compliant device that have to be set up properly. From my experience, you can change a device's
setting that will trigger the device to read from a different memory location than what you set up and what you were expecting.
The good news is, if you review all you device settings and make corrections, eventually you will correct all the settings you'll need
for your intended use of the equipment. This will take time ... and magically the problem goes away.

I'm sure there are other reasons for your issue, but do check and recheck each device settings. This is normal trouble shooting
with cutting edge technology, and please let us know what you find. Hope this helps.

Kind Regards,

JJ

Author mvb
ZRO
#5 | Posted: 4 May 2013 16:42 
Hi all,

at Steve (i'm not allowed to use the at-sign)

i do not use audio over hdmi, i turned it off. But even changing passback didn't help

at Harry

I put a 3m cable between the lumagen and the eecolor. It didn't work.

at JJ, Harry

my chain looks like that: blu-ray -> AV Reciever ->lumagen -> eecolor -> darblet
For the testing purposes i removed the darbee from the chain.

First i always got this hdcp error. Strange thing is, the reciever didn't have an error, the error happend only between the lumagen and the eecolor

I turned off the blu-ray Player -> didn't help, the lumangen complained.
I turned off the reciever -> didn't help, the lumagen complained.
(with long and short cables, didn't matter).

Then i was quite frustrated and turned off the lumagen, turned it back on and: the picture was there?! What the heck happend there?

so i shut down all devices and turned them back on -> the same error again.
Turned off the lumagen and turned it back on -> it works!

So whatever happens there, at least, thanks to you two, i found a workaround. Turning off /on the lumagen again does the trick. But sometimes only for a short time (2 sec), then the error again, sometimes the picture stays. that's quite frustrating. So i'm forced remove the lumagen from the chain.

I asked the lumagen people about the problem and they made it quite easy for themselves: I should remove the eecolor from the chain, it has a crappy hdcp implementation. I should use the lumagen instead, the quality would be the same, they said. Thanks. That helps.

So my temporary, very unsatisfying solution is to remove the lumagen from the chain. then everything is ok. No Problems, but no pattern generator also.

If someone might have another idea how to come by this problem i would very much appreciate it.

Maybe other people will have the same problem and find a solution.

Anyways, Thank you very much for narrowing this thing down.

Mathias

Author JJ Johnson
ZRO
#6 | Posted: 4 May 2013 22:07 
Hi Mathias:

Tomorrow, I'll connect my OPPO83 Blu Ray Player to Lumagen Mini3 to eeColor to darblet to Sony46 LCD TV and play a 2D Blu Ray movie and I'll tell you what happens. Can you do this also with your setup ... by that I mean include everything in your video path
but not your receiver. I've never used mini3 and eeColor at the same time so this should be interesting. Let me know what you find.

I have used OPPO95 Blu Ray Player connected to eeColor to Darblet to Sony55 LED TV quite successfully.

Kind Regards,

JJ

Author JJ Johnson
ZRO
#7 | Posted: 5 May 2013 10:41 
Hi Mathias:

Eject your Blu Ray disk and keep the Blu Ray player's disk tray in the open position. Force your Blu Ray player to output only 1080i.

Play your movie. Tell me what you see.

Kind Regards,

JJ

Author mvb
ZRO
#8 | Posted: 5 May 2013 18:22 
JJ Johnson
Sorry jj,

I can't do it at the moment, running a calibration session. Tomorrow i'll try, but i guess: half a picture or less or some part of the picture at the wrong position? Got all that before...

Author JJ Johnson
ZRO
#9 | Posted: 6 May 2013 12:18 
Hi Mathias:

OK. I understand you don't have time.

Short Answer:

I used a HDMI analyzer and was able to force Lumagen to create a similar error message that you experienced.
Although the root cause of your problem may be different, the solution to my forced error was to
connect eeColor before Lumagen Mini3 in the video path. Data suggests Lumagen expects to be controling the TV directly
and not through another LUT processor. Otherwise, it blocks communication via HDCP. Again, this is what the data is
telling me. Data also indicates it's OK to have Darblet in between Mini3 and TV.

Long Answer:

The Test Configuration That Failed:

1. Source Material Used:

1.1 HDMI Analyzer Source Material: Color Bar Video sent at 1080p, 24p
1.2 OPPO Blu Ray Player Source Material: Blu Ray Version of Star Trek Next Gen Season 3 at 1080p, 24p;


2. Video Path Tested that Failed (First, HDMI analyzer as source, then OPPO Blu Ray Player as Source Device):

HDMI Analyzer (Source: Color Bars @1080p, 24p) --> Mini3 --> eeColor --> Darblet --> Sony46 (1080p@60Hz, does not support 24p)

then:

OPPO83 Blu Ray Player (Source Material: 1080p, 24p) --> Mini3 --> eeColor --> Darblet --> Sony46 (1080p@60Hz, does not support 24p)

As you can see, I forced the HDMI analyzer to send 1080p, 24p content to a TV that does not support 1080p at 24p (only60Hz).
Data indicates Lumagen saw it did not have direct control over TV (eeColor was in the way) and blocked communication to TV via HDCP. The solution: The eeColor LUT image processor must be connected before Lumagen mini 3 ... also it's OK to have Darblet between Lumagen and TV.

Verifed both the failure mode and solution with the second Video Path with the OPPO Blu Ray Player sending 1080p, 24p Blu Ray
movie content through the video path to a TV that does not support 24p (TV supports 1080p 60Hz only, not 24Hz frame rate).

Hope this helps,

Kind Regards,

JJ

Author mvb
ZRO
#10 | Posted: 6 May 2013 18:18 
Thank you very much for testing.

So i have to remove the lumagen from the chain then as lumagen seems not to aknowledge the problem. I use it as a pattern generator so it has to be before the eecolor. But thank you again for finding out.

Mathias

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