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LightSpace CMS: Probe settings while using a reference probe

 
 
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Author Steve

INF
Male
#31 | Posted: 22 Dec 2013 16:10 
Totally correct Harry - I just love my K10-A too!

Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author alex_t
ZRO
#32 | Posted: 23 Dec 2013 09:22 | Edited by: alex_t 
Hello guys.

I love the K10A too but for the moment I cannot own one (I hope very soon)

Finally, I did a probe profile with both probes turned to the screen. As I saw that there are 2 different ways to make a probe profile (with a lot of expert's discussions), I have decided to try both : I mean RGBW at 100% versus RGBW at 75%.

What is your opinion ? Yesterday I did a probe profile with RGBW at 75% with a 10x10x10 3DCUBE characterisation (final 3DLUT result is quite good), in a few days I'll do a probe profile with RGBW at 100% and I'll make a comparison.

Thanks
alex

Author Steve

INF
Male
#33 | Posted: 23 Dec 2013 09:28 
We really do need to add that as an option in LightSpace.
We presently have 100% as default, but I would rather have a lower value!

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author alex_t
ZRO
#34 | Posted: 23 Dec 2013 09:41 | Edited by: alex_t 
Steve:
We really do need to add that as an option in LightSpace.
We presently have 100% as default, but I would rather have a lower value!

Your response is very interesting but not complete

It means that for the moment with LightSpace, we have to do a probe profile with RGBW at 100%. Ok, it's not a problem at all.

But it means also that a probe profile with RGBW at 75% might be useful, could you explain why ? Actually, I trust in your explanation more than the ones found on the internet.

Thanks

alex

Author Steve

INF
Male
#35 | Posted: 23 Dec 2013 10:18 
The problem is if the display you are working on is incorrectly clipping any of the RGB channels the matching will be wrong.
Obviously that is a display error, but it can happen.
If you follow the 'Initial Display Set-up' instructions before doing the probe matching all will be ok!

Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author alex_t
ZRO
#36 | Posted: 23 Dec 2013 12:06 
Thanks Steve. As usually your answer is crystal clear.


Author Harry
ZRO
#37 | Posted: 24 Dec 2013 16:48 | Edited by: Harry 
Guys,

I've done a mistake in my posting regarding the second profiling (faced2PJ). That doesn't work, so please forget this passage, especially the text in bold letters:

Harry:
Turn the i1D3 towards the PJ, use the probes white diffuser and aim it to the center of the projection. Don't go too close to the PJ, because you will get kind of a monitor-backlight-effect in low luminance levels! The probe's Y range is 0,003 ... 1000 cd/m²

Then run a new profiling using this LightSpace Probe Options setting:
Reference Probe = your i1D3 profile (referenced to i1Pro2)
Active Probe = NONE
...

Reason: We get no combined profile with i1Pro2 + i1D3 corrections in one profile. That was bullshit, don't know what I've thought to myself as I wrote that shit ... sorry.

So the only way would be to use the Spectro's profile at all ... regardless if Faced2Screen or Faced2PJ.

But as discussed - only off-screen measurements are best.

Harry

Author ConnecTED
LTE
#38 | Posted: 24 Dec 2013 19:27 
alex_t:
Finally, I did a probe profile with both probes turned to the screen. As I saw that there are 2 different ways to make a probe profile (with a lot of expert's discussions), I have decided to try both : I mean RGBW at 100% versus RGBW at 75%.What is your opinion ?

Hello Alex,

It doesn't matter if you have a JETI / Photo Reaseach / Minolta.... but If you have i1PRO 1/2: these meters are returning chromaticity but they are not so accurate reading low luminance levels, for example Blue Pattern during the profiling @ Luminance Levels Below ~8 cd/m2.

i1PRO1/2 is not so accurate on everything below ~10cdm/2..It will return to you chromaticity readings but it will be fake.

You can run a test to see where your i1pro1/2 doesn't return trusTED readings.

Profile your colorimeter with using your spectro and run a 21-Step Grayscale with your spectro and with your profiled colorimeter.....you will see that at 50%-100% grayscale both meter will return to your similar readings but lower you will see that i1pro2 will not track well your colorimeter readings.....At the point you will see that problem is starting, check the Luminance level of that point and you will see at what cdm2 is the limit you can trust at the future ;)

Examples / Why we have to always profile with 100% Amplitude patterns with i1pro1/2:

If you have a Display with White @ 120cd/m2 with Gamma 2.2:

If you perform profiling with 100% Amplitude Patterns then you will have:

100% White @ 120 cd/m2
100% Blue @ 8,6 cd/m2

If you perform profiling with 75% Amplitude Patterns then you will have:

75% White @ 63,5 cd/m2
75% Blue @ 4,5 cd/m2

If you have a Projector with White @ 14fl = 48cd/m2 with Gamma 2.2:

If you perform profiling with 100% Amplitude Patterns then you will have:

100% White @ 48 cd/m2
100% Blue @ 3,4 cd/m2
100% Red @ 10,2 cd/m2

If you perform profiling with 75% Amplitude Patterns then you will have:

75% White @ 25,4 cd/m2
75% Blue @ 1,8 cd/m2
75% Red @ 5,4 cd/m2

Author alex_t
ZRO
#39 | Posted: 26 Dec 2013 07:23 
Hello Ted.

Thanks for your explanation, very interesting. I'll do the measurements that you suggest.

Yesterday, I did a full 3D characterisation with my i1D3 profiled through i1pro2 at 100% amplitude patterns. Result is really good, better than with i1D3 not profiled.



Alex

Author sillysally
ZRO
#40 | Posted: 19 Jan 2014 02:16 
Steve.

When using a Jeti 1211 and the latest LS software, what should I know when setting up the 1211.??
Also when using a 1211 to profile a K10-A should I still use the K10's profile, in my case Plasma.??

ss

Author Steve

INF
Male
#41 | Posted: 19 Jan 2014 02:43 | Edited by: Steve 
Hi ss,

We have changed nothing with regard to the probe interfacing, so all will be exactly the same as before.

What we have changed is the patch colour level when profiling one probe against another.
We no longer use 100% values to prevent issues if the display is clipping.
We now use a value of 240 (I think - please check that!).

As for the K10-A setting, it really doesn't matter, so long as you use the same setting when profiling as you used when probe matching.
Preset - 0 is the default one, but as I say it should really makes no difference.
The one thing that can go wrong is if the pre-set you use is already well off-set, and when matching to the Jeti you get negative values - that will cause all sorts of problems, so it should be obvious something is wrong...

Hope that helps.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author sillysally
ZRO
#42 | Posted: 19 Jan 2014 06:18 
Hello Steve.

I have never used a Jeti 1211. So I am looking for how to setup the 1211 and profile the K10-A off of the 1211.
When you say a lot - offsets. What are you looking at.

ss

Author Steve

INF
Male
#43 | Posted: 19 Jan 2014 12:07 
As the 1211 is a spectro there really are not 'settings'.
Just connect and go

Not sure what you mean by 'a lot - offsets'... what do you mean?

Or do you mean 'well off-set'?

If so, what I mean is that if the K10-A pre-set you select causes negative values when matched to the Jeti (or any other spectro/probe) that will always cause problems, as that is not a valid setting, but can happen if the K10-A pre-sets and the Jeti values 'fight' each other due to the K10 pre-set selected being too different in the wrong direction from the actual values needed.

Does that make more sense?
Not easy to get your head around I know!

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author sillysally
ZRO
#44 | Posted: 19 Jan 2014 13:03 
Were do I look for the " negative values " ??

Other than that yes I understand.

Thanks,

ss

Author Steve

INF
Male
#45 | Posted: 19 Jan 2014 13:09 
Sorry, I should have explained that!

You would see them as bad plots on the CIE graphs when you look at the profile data after profiling.
There would be 'crosses' right at the edge of the graph...
A few is ok, as LightSpace will filter them out when making the calibration LUT.
But if you have a lot, then junk the profile and re-do the probe matching.

If you use the K10 '0' pre-set all should be ok, as that is the base pre-set for the probe

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

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 LightSpace CMS: Probe settings while using a reference probe

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