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Are Sim2 consumer projectors suitable for grading?

 
Author simonjaquemet
ZRO
#1 | Posted: 11 Nov 2013 07:16 
I came across some good offers for used Sim2 consumer projectors in the under $20k range recently.

Specifically those models:
Sim2 HT-5000 3chip DLP
Sim2 HT-3000-T1 1chip DLP

Does anyone of you have experience with those? How do they compare to the pro line of Sim2 projectors?

Thanks

Author Steve

INF
Male
#2 | Posted: 20 Nov 2013 15:47 
We've never tested the consumer SIM2 projectors - so we really can't comment.

But, few consumer projectors we have tested have been suitable.
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author sajidswami
ZRO
#3 | Posted: 6 Feb 2014 10:25 
Steve:
But, few consumer projectors we have tested have been suitable.

Oh really. Do tell which consumers projectors you found to be good for grading ? Anything atleast aproaching DCI P3 ?

Author Steve

INF
Male
#4 | Posted: 6 Feb 2014 13:45 
Please read the post above yours - few consumer projectors we have tested have been suitable.
That basically means we have found NONE suitable!

And P3?
Please - you're having a laugh



Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Skappa
ZRO
#5 | Posted: 26 Mar 2014 17:36 
Hi there, I am working for SIM2.

For what is in my experience, the HT5000 could be probably suitable for Rec.709 Grading, after a proper calibration with ColorSpace and an external lutbox.
I can tell you that the Gamut that we have measured, is wide enough for that, and the coordinates variation at different Y levels are not perfect, but good enough
to give a reliable image. Even the Image uniformity is good. My personal suggestion is to use the SIM2 Software for the basic calibration of the Projector,
and then leave to LightSpace CMS the micrometric work. You will be surprised about the result. Just keep the lamp power low, in order to keep performance in time, and use a screen not too big, let's say somewhere 2,2 and 3,2-3,5 mt wide. You are free to contact me for any info you should need

Author Steve

INF
Male
#6 | Posted: 26 Mar 2014 22:31 
LightSpace CMS and a LUT box, such as the IS-mini or even the eeColor, will indeed produce the best possible calibration, if the projector can produce an image that is beyond the target colour space, with a good blackand white level, and contrast ratio.

So, yes, what Antonio says is correct, and worth looking at.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author Skappa
ZRO
#7 | Posted: 27 Mar 2014 08:43 
Just to say, we (SIM2) have more modern models, 3chip FullHD, that are suitable for grading.

Author Citation4444
ZRO
#8 | Posted: 27 Mar 2014 18:06 
I have a Sim2 HT5000E and can second what Skappa says. I have used LS with eeColor as well as Radiance 2042 to store the LUTs. The colors using the built-in Sim2 software are reasonably close with saturation of R being the most off in my case, but not much, and it can easily be corrected with LS. I have generated LUTs using the native gamut as well as LUTs using the Sim2 SW at Rec709 d65. The Sim2 software does a great job of getting the primaries and secondaries as close to the targets as is possible given the native gamut. In my case the hue angle of R and B prevents getting the primaries perfect, but they're very close. I then use LS to fine tune within the color cube.

Bob

Author Stefan Orlandic
ZRO
#9 | Posted: 1 Apr 2014 00:10 
hello,
Sim2 HT5000/HT5000E is a consumer version of Sim2 PRO5000/Sim2 M50/Cinevation ColorBlazer.
3 chip TI DLP, 0.95" DMD, Konica Minolta lens.
Hardware itself is pretty much identical between PRO and CONSUMER version.
Projector has wide gamut (not big enough for P3 but much wider than rec709).
Using proper probe and Sim2 software, you can calibrate the projector to almost perfect rec709 (0.001 to 0.002 difference than ideal rec709,
but this could also depend a lot on individual lamp and chip delivery).

This Sim2 projector is used by several high end european post production studios on very high profile jobs. Grading in rec709.
My good friends have used Sim2 third year in a row to grade an OSCAR nominated/winning feature films.
We (Living Pictures Belgrade) also use it in our smaller grading suite with great results.

Of course, if You put Lightspace CMS in the picture, You will get even better results.

And as Antonio said there is a new generation of Sim2 3 chip, 0.95" projector with full P3 DCI coverage (Sim2 ProC4 DCI and Sim2 ProC4 Active/Quad)

Author Skappa
ZRO
#10 | Posted: 7 Apr 2014 15:52 
If anyone is curious to see, I have the calibration sheet from my recent installation in Paris, in DCI and Rec.709 mode both. I'd like to post the pictures here, but I don't know if I'm allowed and how to do. Anyway, if you are interested please drop me a message and I will send you!!!

Author Citation4444
ZRO
#11 | Posted: 8 Apr 2014 05:42 
Skappa
I am interested. rrwe@tds.net

Author JJ Johnson
ZRO
#12 | Posted: 22 Apr 2014 16:11 
Skappa
Pls email your cal sheet to me as well: seahawk40@earthlink.net. Thx!!

Author Skappa
ZRO
#13 | Posted: 22 Apr 2014 17:39 
JJ Johnson
Hi JJ. Your Spam Blocker asked me to register... hope you will receive the charts, now!

Author JJ Johnson
ZRO
#14 | Posted: 24 Apr 2014 23:02 
Skappa
Hi Antonio:

Yes, I got them. Thx!.

Kind Regards,

JJ

Author simonjaquemet
ZRO
#15 | Posted: 26 Apr 2014 09:46 
Hi all

Thanks for all the information.
We were looking at various options of used & new, pro- and consumer projectors.
In the end we went with a B-Stock Projectiondesign F35. We got a unit with very low running time at a reasonable price. And are very happy.
Reaches perfect rec709 and very close to P3. So if you accept not to see the very far, saturated end of P3 you can even work in DCI P3.

The SIM2 projectors are very interesting and especially the ProC4 DCI might be an upgrade we will consider for the future.

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 Are Sim2 consumer projectors suitable for grading?

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